I have 30 years of experience, and you think I don't know what the hell I'm talking about!After listening to the Gallagher interview on WTF with Marc Maron, I must say I heard more of a resigned abandonment than a storming-off.
More 'This is dumb,' than 'Well—I—Never!'
And I disagree with Gallagher. It wasn't dumb. Maron deserved a response to his questions, and the harshest part of the interview was already over. Here's where I thought Gallagher was going to leave:
Gallagher: You can't tell a lesbian joke in Boston, Minneapolis, Portland, and Seattle.
Maron: Why?
Gallagher: 'Cause they'll boo you.
Maron: Because… why?
Gallagher: Their politics is different.
Maron: Their politics? Or their sensitivity to people who are a specific group of people that are being made fun of at the brunt of a joke to release the aggression of narrow-minded people as some form of entertainment, is offensive to them. That's why. So my question is: If by releasing aggression in an audience is by saying like "The Arabs stink. They're all evil" or… "Gays are fucked," and that releases aggression, how is it not just reaffirming fucking prejudice and intolerance in that group of people?
Gallagher: You think I have the power, by telling a joke, to rally people—
Maron: —to laugh.
Gallagher: —around—
Maron: —to laugh. You rally people to laugh at what? Because they identify with your prejudice. That's why they're laughing. "I get that. I hate fags too." Is that releasing aggression in a healthy way?
Gallagher: (pause) Hate—
Maron: Sure.
Gallagher: There's not hate involved here. We're telling jokes.
Maron: O, there's a lot of hate in jokes. Come on…
Gallagher rolls with this challenge and claims not to hate or wish to oppress any group. Maron's claim—that Gallagher is reaffirming intolerance—starts to merge with his broader challenge that the humor isn't helping society's problems.
Because, of course, we know that comedy is all about problem solving.
But that's a fair push. It's fair of Maron to pursue it. And at this point in the interview, the tone starts to calm down. They even go on to chuckle a few times. Yeah, Gallagher probably should admit that his comedy isn't fixing things. I have no problem (as if that matters) with Maron hoping his own comedy heals and doesn't just distract. His humor has always had more the sting of antiseptic than the ease of anaesthetic. But that's why I wasn't sure what precise point he was making when he asked about Gallagher's act
What if it hurts people's feelings? And…what if people see it as as isolating and vicious? Does that bother you?
The strength of Maron's act has always been that even if he cares that he hurts people, he keeps going with it. Because people—even when they're in groups—can handle being ridiculed. But is he going to insist that unless you're trying to help, an act that "hurts" is contributing to intolerance? Maron doesn't give much space when Gallagher claims that he's showing society its hangups.
And that's because when you try to talk about the moral responsibility of comedy, you either have to draw some completely arbitrary lines; or you start a horrible discussion of aesthetics; or you have to admit that there is no morality as long as you're OK with who your audience is.
In this interview, Gallagher comes across a comic that thinks he has a lot to teach. He doesn't value the trend away from histrionic comedy. He believes every comic should want to sell out State Fairs. He believes even the greatest comedians who focus their material on their own fears and problems are doing it wrong. He sees himself as a blend between historian and mentor. And he's sad that his audience is literally dying. The thing that drives him away from the interview is that he doesn't realize that Maron is already important, and doesn't need a teacher, teaching those things. Right before he gives up, Gallagher complains "Why did you want me to do this interview if you don't think I dont know anything about what you're asking me about."* I can't imagine he would ask that if he understood how well WTF has done, and will continue to do, without him.
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* It's important to keep in mind how this all started. Maron explains in his weekly email update: "My manager got a call from a guy who said he was Gallagher’s manager. He wanted to know if Gallagher could do a spot on my show and maybe do the podcast."
