"I Was Gonna Save the World" - Gallagher on WTF

I have 30 years of experience, and you think I don't know what the hell I'm talking about!

After listening to the Gallagher interview on WTF with Marc Maron, I must say I heard more of a resigned abandonment than a storming-off.

More 'This is dumb,' than 'Well—I—Never!'

And I disagree with Gallagher. It wasn't dumb. Maron deserved a response to his questions, and the harshest part of the interview was already over. Here's where I thought Gallagher was going to leave:

Gallagher: You can't tell a lesbian joke in Boston, Minneapolis, Portland, and Seattle.

Maron: Why?

Gallagher: 'Cause they'll boo you.

Maron: Because… why?

Gallagher: Their politics is different.

Maron: Their politics? Or their sensitivity to people who are a specific group of people that are being made fun of at the brunt of a joke to release the aggression of narrow-minded people as some form of entertainment, is offensive to them. That's why. So my question is: If by releasing aggression in an audience is by saying like "The Arabs stink. They're all evil" or… "Gays are fucked," and that releases aggression, how is it not just reaffirming fucking prejudice and intolerance in that group of people?

Gallagher: You think I have the power, by telling a joke, to rally people—

Maron: —to laugh.

Gallagher: —around—

Maron: —to laugh. You rally people to laugh at what? Because they identify with your prejudice. That's why they're laughing. "I get that. I hate fags too." Is that releasing aggression in a healthy way?

Gallagher: (pause) Hate—

Maron: Sure.

Gallagher: There's not hate involved here. We're telling jokes.

Maron: O, there's a lot of hate in jokes. Come on…

Gallagher rolls with this challenge and claims not to hate or wish to oppress any group. Maron's claim—that Gallagher is reaffirming intolerance—starts to merge with his broader challenge that the humor isn't helping society's problems.

Because, of course, we know that comedy is all about problem solving.

But that's a fair push. It's fair of Maron to pursue it. And at this point in the interview, the tone starts to calm down. They even go on to chuckle a few times. Yeah, Gallagher probably should admit that his comedy isn't fixing things. I have no problem (as if that matters) with Maron hoping his own comedy heals and doesn't just distract. His humor has always had more the sting of antiseptic than the ease of anaesthetic. But that's why I wasn't sure what precise point he was making when he asked about Gallagher's act

What if it hurts people's feelings? And…what if people see it as as isolating and vicious? Does that bother you?

The strength of Maron's act has always been that even if he cares that he hurts people, he keeps going with it. Because people—even when they're in groups—can handle being ridiculed. But is he going to insist that unless you're trying to help, an act that "hurts" is contributing to intolerance? Maron doesn't give much space when Gallagher claims that he's showing society its hangups.

And that's because when you try to talk about the moral responsibility of comedy, you either have to draw some completely arbitrary lines; or you start a horrible discussion of aesthetics; or you have to admit that there is no morality as long as you're OK with who your audience is.

In this interview, Gallagher comes across a comic that thinks he has a lot to teach. He doesn't value the trend away from histrionic comedy. He believes every comic should want to sell out State Fairs. He believes even the greatest comedians who focus their material on their own fears and problems are doing it wrong. He sees himself as a blend between historian and mentor. And he's sad that his audience is literally dying. The thing that drives him away from the interview is that he doesn't realize that Maron is already important, and doesn't need a teacher, teaching those things. Right before he gives up, Gallagher complains "Why did you want me to do this interview if you don't think I dont know anything about what you're asking me about."* I can't imagine he would ask that if he understood how well WTF has done, and will continue to do, without him.

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* It's important to keep in mind how this all started. Maron explains in his weekly email update: "My manager got a call from a guy who said he was Gallagher’s manager. He wanted to know if Gallagher could do a spot on my show and maybe do the podcast."

Run, Gallagher Run: Maron Loses his First Guest Mid-interview

This just in: Halfway thru being interviewed by Marc Maron earlier today, Gallagher threw a tantrum and ditched the room. Here's how it went down according to Maron's recent tweets. In the order Maron posted:

• Looks like I'm going to interview Gallagher today. WTF. (9:34 AM PST)
• Going to find Gallagher. Talk later. I hope[....] (10:41 AM PST)
• Gallagher just threw the mic down and stormed out of my hotel room. (11:33 AM PST)
• I got about a half hour. Very defensive. I guess if you call bullshit on him there is no debate. He just storms off like a child. (11:36 AM PST)
• I was being very diplomatic but I guess its either his way or[....]he throws the mic down and storms off. (11:37 AM PST)
• I wouldn't put it past Gallagher to come and heckle me tnite. He was pissed. Doesn't like comics who talk about themselves. (11:41 AM PST)
• I knew what I was getting into. He snapped when I disagreed with his assessment of good and bad comedy. Not politics. (12:02 PM PST)

@lowmoralfiber asks: "Did you feel physically threatened?"

• Not at all. I was sad he left. It was just getting good.

@smassing asks: "First guest to walk out on you?"

• Yes.

@SonicReducer09 asks: "were you really being that hard on him?"

• No, I was trying to logically understand where he was coming from. My bad.

And it looks like we'll get to hear the buildup.

• I plan to air the half hour. No reason not to if the sound is good.

Anyone who follows Marc Maron or listens to WTF knows that he readily admits to occasionally being aggressive and confrontational. But not really in his WTF interviews. There he just has honest and revealing conversations with comedians just begging to be understood and loved. There are tense moments, sure, but Gallagher is apparently the first to shut down walk away.

And don't worry; Maron assures us that the mic was not harmed.

Brian Gaar Interviews Marc Maron

Brian Gaar, at It's Always Funny in Austin, talks with Marc Maron about comedy, fame, conversations, and controversy.

Maron:

I’ve been surprised a lot by the conversations I’ve had with a number of people - (Bob) Odenkirk and Rob Delaney and there have been some emotional moments. I mean, the second Mencia (podcast) was pretty amazing and my buddy Sam Lipsyte, who I love, and also the two Louis CK episodes this week were particularly important to me because we were able to rebuild our friendship that had become sort’ve strained and you can sort’ve hear that. So most all of them are good, the only time I’m a little disappointed - and I’m not gonna mention names - is where it’s difficult to have a conversation and that doesn’t happen too often.

Yes. They spelled it "sort've".

Podcast of the Week: Louis C.K. on WTF

I refuse to apologize for mentioning Marc Maron's WTF so often. In my opinion, it's the best one out there, so I might as well act like it. As good as it is on a regular basis, this week stood out. Maron and Louis C.K. were finally reunited.

You don't have to be a fan of comedy to enjoy this one. Buffy only occasionally finds these things interesting (and even when she kindly listens, I can count on her eventually saying in the middle of an argument "well I had to listen to that [whatever] that you played for me a week ago!" But the several clips I played for her from these interviews, were well-received. Even when she started to roll her eyes at one of the clips that she thought was just going to be silly and crass, she soon realized that it was actually a pretty powerful moment.

Maron And C.K. are friends from way back in the last century. They started together and earned their successful careers together. From those salad days, they both developed and matured. And in the process they grew apart, as many very good friends do. The reunion ended up lasting long enough to provide enough for two episodes.

They go over the rift, their careers, the business, writing, family, anxiety… really pretty much everything. And it's not light and fluffy conversation. Maron is alway good at getting his guests to talk honestly, and this visit goes so far as to get some tears flowing on one topic, which includes a really good line from C.K. about the amazing power of water.

He holds little back, talking about the experience of being a stand-up wanting to create more than stage performances, and the doubts and roadblocks he had to walk around, plow thru, or chisel away. He discusses his time writing for Dana Carvey, and Conan O'Brien, and the frustration of doing a well-regarded, tho not always fully-understood show for HBO, Lucky Louie.

TV sitcoms are written by Harvard graduates who don't like audiences. They don't like people. They're not popular people. And so they hate the idea that audiences can tell them whether something's funny or not. So they've built a system where they shoot on a stage in front of an audience but they ignore the audience. …

Most big sitcoms don't have an audience now. And they have a man called the laugh man and he puts in the laughs. And the laughs are short enough…that the clippy dialogue can continue. Jennifer Aniston never looks aware of the audience when she's perf— She's supposed to be performing in front of an audience on Friends. (That's how old I am.)

But uh, we had to hold for laughs, and uh, it was a mess. But it was supposed to be.

C.K. has now achieved the first levels of an auteur. His work is good enough and reliable enough, and his choices are trusted enough to make his show almost completely his own. A big part of that is because he's a good writer and performer. Maybe an even bigger part of that is because he spent time learning how do his own editing and how to switch the lenses on cameras. Not every comedian will get "The Louis Deal." And very few would know what to do with it.

The last few minutes of the whole visit are about as honest an exchange as Maron has had on his podcast. C.K. begins his closing advice about friendship with "You don't have to put this in the podcast if you don't want to," then he goes on to talk about the value, pain, and challenge of friendship. Especially one with Maron. The best thing about WTF week after week, is that Maron leaves so much of that stuff in.

Podcast of the Week: Marc Maron on Giraldo and Schimmel

"He was really baffled at at the fact that he could not stay off fucking drugs and alcohol. And he tried. And this was a miscalculation."
-Marc Maron

Photo Credit: Bobby Bank
Posted by The Stress Factory

If you're only going to listen to or read one more remembrance of Greg Giraldo, make it Maron's tribute on his podcast. The half-hour he spends remembering Robert Schimmel and Giraldo is a pure example of his characteristic honesty and vulnerability. Maron knows fear and pain and doubt really well. But more importantly, he knows that he doesn't know it all. Calling Giraldo's overdose a "miscalculation" is about as precise a term as I can imagine. It doesn't matter what the truth is about which drugs he was using and which choices he was aware of; whatever the numbers, at some point Giraldo started adding them up wrong.

Tributes to Greg Giraldo have been going up on all sorts of sites. And they're worth reading. Some of them are simple statements of sadness and remembrance, and some of them are more detailed thoughts on the significance of Giraldo and his death.

Comedy Central:

Greg was our go-to comedian for a reason: he was always game, always generous, and always brilliantly funny.

Ted Alexandro (@ The Comic's Comic):

It was a week or so after September 11th and Greg walked into Gotham Comedy Club. I was thrilled because I was curious to see if he would address the attacks and how he would handle it. I hadn't really seen anyone do it yet. Greg proceeded to launch head on into the topic with a daring and magical set that was both astoundingly funny and cathartic. I laughed so hard that I cried. I cried because maestro Giraldo had taught us all a lesson once again. Nothing stops life. Nothing is off limits. It is all fodder, it is all available to us to create something beautiful. There was something so reassuring in his cocksure presence on stage. It was like 'Okay motherfuckers, here we go!'

Dave Anthony:

I'm not sure why Greg's death has knocked me down the way it has. … Could just be because he was one of the nicest stand up comedians I've met. I am a man obsessed with justice and things being right. This is just so wrong I can't wrap my head around it.

Dylan Gadino (Punchline Magazine):

I hope he knew that I was inspired by his performances. On his albums and during his live shows, no matter how frustrated or angry he seemed while dissecting society’s foibles, there was a quiet, constant and underlying fragility that endeared him not only to me but also to all of his true fans.

Sean McCarthy (The Comics Comic):

One of the first things I wrote publicly about Greg Giraldo in 2006 was this: "Greg Giraldo should be a lot more famous than he is. Of all of the stand-up comedians working the circuit and talking topical, few know how to tell it like it is like Giraldo can." I still feel the same way about him today.

Vinnie Brand:

For those of you that got to know him, you knew him instantly as a fine man and if you were fortunate, a good friend.

Michael Ian Black:

I was struck by his immense intelligence and good spirit. … The lesson I take away from it is one I hope I’ve been learning over the years: have gratitude for what you have and forgive yourself for what might have been.

Michael Ian Black's comments are, in part, his response to an interview Giraldo did with Psychology Today on the topic of failure.

Podcast of the Week: WTF with Marc Maron - 100th Episode

Marc Maron's WTF podcast has dropped 100 episodes. He started putting them out in September of last year, and through all the changes, he has consistently produced provocative, entertaining and engaging shows. It's one of two podcasts that I started listening to from the beginning and of which I've not missed an episode. For the 100th episode celebration Maron put out a special version. A quick synopsis:

He talks about his root canal.

He gives a brief history of the show and its origins, going back to the event that started it all: losing his job at Air America but keeping his security pass card. Guerrilla podcasting.

Several letters, including one from a reader who supports Maron's Nerd Cock campaign and who quotes Brecht and Aristotle, but sounds more pleased to be quoting himself. The listener writes proudly, like that student in every one of my composition classes that has been told for way too long that he's smart. The kid that makes me want to stab him just for using words like be-logo-ed and phrases like "oral-tract-turned-product"—instead of just writing "podcast".

Maron makes a plea (sponsored by Adam & Eve) for his readers to masturbate so that he doesn't feel guilty and alone.

On the tail end of that, we listen in on a tender conversation with his mother, who asks him if the girl he's dating has graduated high school yet. Then a conversation with his father, who says he's been too busy to listen to a single episode, then gives a quick goodbye and hangs up.

We meet the former stalker who has become his girlfriend, and we hear from several other folks.

Maron is a smart guy. A funny guy. In the top half of my top-five list of all stand-ups. But sometimes he makes me laugh not on purpose. Like the comment he makes to an Asian fan:

"You have no accent... and you grew up with Chinese speaking parents. That's amazing!" Yep. It's amazing how easily little Chinese babies learn to suppress their Chinese accent when they're born and raised in America.

Later, he adds, "He was set free from his ancient past and language and he's just like me." Those ancient cultures and languages, that billions of people still live in and speak.

It's a good episode. He sounds genuinely pleased to still be doing the podcast. And he promises he's in it for a while. Maron knowingly approaches vulnerability on the stage and on WTF. His fans are devoted to and invested in his story. It's easy to see why so many think they know him, understand him, and perhaps that he even knows them. That he's talking just to them.

In closing, biannual can mean either twice a year, or every two years. Unfortunately, given the context of the story when it comes up during this episode, either meaning is pretty tragic.

For a few of you readers who might be interested, Maron promises a forthcoming update on the Jomance. The Joe Wagner bromance that was introduced in episode 90.




Subscribe to WTF with iTunes

(all photos from the WTF website)

Video Bit of the Week

Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn lasted about one season, from 2003 to 2004. I've been looking for news of a DVD release or Netflix streaming, or even a short appearance on Hulu. A few months ago, Jay832009 uploaded several clips to YouTube. Bless you Jay.

Then sneakerpimpin2381 saw them, and decided to convert and upload some scratchy old VHS recordings. I'm not complaining. Finding these videos made my day.

Ignore the audio quality. Get past the lack of direction in the conversations. Forgive the holes in the comics' logic and just enjoy watching some very different styles of swinging at the same log.

This clip includes both Patrice O'Neal and Marc Maron. A show like this was made for O'Neal. It's the perfect place for him to ridicule and intimidate. Maron was hit and miss on the show. He wasn't in the Tough Crowd inner circle*, and the inner circle feasted sloppily on outsiders. This was a good night for him. He and O'Neal were mostly in charge.

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*Patrice O'Neal, Jim Norton, Nick DiPaolo, Keith Robinson, Greg Giraldo… roughly

Andy Richter on Marc Maron's WTF

Andy Richter stopped by Marc Maron's garage for a chat. Fortunately Maron was smart enough to record it and kind enough to post it.

Richter's talent is sneaky. He's pretty good at everything he's done, and it always looks like he's doing something easy. In a small role, a recurring role, as a sidekick or main character, it looks like he's just in the right place when everyone's laughing. But pay attention and you'll see it's no accident. He's getting those laughs on purpose. My favorite segments on Conan O'Brien's 12:30 show were definitely Richter's remotes. Consistently hilarious.

Richter and Maron seem to get each other. Throughout the interview there's a lot of "yeah, yeah" and "exactly, exactly" going on. They do a little in medias res narrative, reminiscing a bit about the early days of the 12:30 Late Night spot, and following the timeline to Conan O'Brien's new show, set to debut on TBS in November. He talks some about his family and his depression, his realization that doing the dishes is the real stuff, and the sometimes horrible horrible world of show business. How does a good show like Andy Richter Controls the Universe not make it?

We lacked what I refer to as 'exploding titty.' Like, you know, the stuff that all those white men understand. … "Oh yeah yeah, I get it. Check out those titties!"

The "white men" he's referring to are the executives he had mentioned running into when trying to succeed in the business:

Then you get to like that wall of dumb fuckin' white men who...no one's told them they've been wrong about anything, except maybe their wives when they divorced them. But they've just been told they're right about everything for the last ten or fifteen years.

And he talks pretty directly about the Tonight Show mess.

If you have iTunes, subscribe to WTF here.