If you're going to argue about the legalities of a case that you know very little about, you're probably not going to fare too well against a Harvard educated lawyer. Greg Giraldo's frustration with the stupid claims and inane premises of the discussion bring him just to the edge of standing up and yelling "You're all out of order! This whole show is out of order!"
Not only was Giraldo well-educated, he was a hardworking comedian who believed in writing and crafting material. He didn't imagine his unpolished take on issues was enough to merit a spot on the panel. He worked to show the platform respect. And when a bigger name tries to shit on you because you refuse to coast, you have every right to put that ego in its place. Point Giraldo.
Wednesday, September 29, 2010
Comedians React to Greg Giraldo's Death
Greg Giraldo died earlier today after having suffered what was reported to be an accidental overdose of prescription drugs.
The early report of Giraldo's death came thru a post by Jim Norton on Twitter. Michael Ian Black posted a reaction, a few websites started posting the news, and eventually Punchline Magazine posted confirmation and a statement from Giraldo's management.
Reactions to the news have been a pretty tight mix of sadness and shock. For a while Giraldo occupied both the first and second slots of trending topics on Twitter, where a very sincere and gentle tone has taken over the typically harsh and ironic exchanges.
Some of the reactions went more easily, and just as sincerely, to anger.
And Giraldo's history with substance abuse reminded a few people to show concern for friends dealing with similar issues. It's no secret that drugs are a tool for a lot of comedians. Humor definitely asks for a certain brightness, and that heat can burn.
Two especially moving posts came from Patton Oswalt. His anger confronting the senselessness, and his vulnerability pushing thru:
It's no mean poetic detail that Giraldo's last two tweets rhyme so bluntly with the news. His final tweet was an announcement of his shows at the Stress Factory, an engagement he wasn't able to finish; the tweet just before that, a reaction to the news of Robert Schimmel's death.
Gilbert Gottfried got right to work trying to earn the groans for a joke told too soon:
I can't imagine Giraldo would mind one bit.
The early report of Giraldo's death came thru a post by Jim Norton on Twitter. Michael Ian Black posted a reaction, a few websites started posting the news, and eventually Punchline Magazine posted confirmation and a statement from Giraldo's management.
Reactions to the news have been a pretty tight mix of sadness and shock. For a while Giraldo occupied both the first and second slots of trending topics on Twitter, where a very sincere and gentle tone has taken over the typically harsh and ironic exchanges.
- There are no words 2 express what a shame it is 2 lose Greg Giraldo. His smart humor was unparalleled & he will be missed for yrs to come. ‑Lisa Lampanelli
- RIP Greg Giraldo. Belly-laugh hilarious, prolific, good & kind. A thousand oys can't express ‑Sarah Silverman
- I spent an afternoon with Greg Giraldo this summer and he gave me so much life perspective and humor in one long conversation. RIP. Fuck. ‑Joe Randazzo
- W/ Greg Giraldo's passing we lose one of the funniest smartest men there ever was, we should all be as good. Thoughts are w/his family. ‑Al Madrigal
- Dammit, Greg Giraldo - Our pain… should be from laughing with you like usual, NOT this. Goodbye, my brilliant friend. ‑Paul Provenza
- Greg Giraldo is the reason Comedy Central gave me a special. One of the nicest funniest dudes of all time. Just awful. RIP and thanks sir. ‑Josh Sneed
- I lost one of my best friends today. @greggiraldo. ‑Tom Papa
- Crying today at the loss of Greg Giraldo. Rest in peace. ‑Wendy Liebman
- Rest In Peace, my sweet friend, Greg Giraldo. So brilliant. My thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family. Love all the people. ‑Andy Kindler
- Goodbye, Greggy. RIP. So sad. Really sad. Giraldo was a great guy, a great comic, a loving dad. It's just awful. My heart hurts. ‑Marc Maron
- Greg giraldo was a good guy. The kind of you're always glad to see. Also a funny comic and person. He died today. Goodbye friend. ‑Louis C.K.
Some of the reactions went more easily, and just as sincerely, to anger.
And Giraldo's history with substance abuse reminded a few people to show concern for friends dealing with similar issues. It's no secret that drugs are a tool for a lot of comedians. Humor definitely asks for a certain brightness, and that heat can burn.
- Greg Giraldo RIP. Be careful with scripts, don't mix with alcohol and fully research pills online before you take anything. ‑Andy Milonakis
- So sad about Greg Giraldo. He was nice and funny. A rare combination in comedy. Hope this helps comics sober up. ‑Jamie Kilstein
Two especially moving posts came from Patton Oswalt. His anger confronting the senselessness, and his vulnerability pushing thru:
- Really, Universe? Greg Giraldo? Fuck off.
- Just went way out of my way not to drive past Laugh Factory. If I see Giraldo's name on that marquee, gonna lose it.
Greg Giraldo Dead at 44
(Updated below: confirmed)
About an hour ago Jim Norton posted on Twitter that Greg Giraldo has died.
Here's the picture he posted with the tweet.
TMZ has offered confirmation of the claim, and several other comedians have posted either reactions or statements of the same sentiment. No one wants to be unnecessarily skeptical, and it's hard to direct emotions towards such a cold and unfeeling task as skepticism. All reports and outlets (including the Washington Post) are currently pointing to TMZ and twitter as the sources of the news. It would be nice to find that the sources are unreliable. But, sadly, it's looking like the news is accurate.
[Update]
Giraldo's own website has been simplified to include a link to his Facebook page, directing visitors there to leave "Notes of condolence."
Dylan Gadino at Punchline Magazine has received confirmation from Giraldo's management, The Collective, that the reports are accurate.
About an hour ago Jim Norton posted on Twitter that Greg Giraldo has died.
Here's the picture he posted with the tweet.
TMZ has offered confirmation of the claim, and several other comedians have posted either reactions or statements of the same sentiment. No one wants to be unnecessarily skeptical, and it's hard to direct emotions towards such a cold and unfeeling task as skepticism. All reports and outlets (including the Washington Post) are currently pointing to TMZ and twitter as the sources of the news. It would be nice to find that the sources are unreliable. But, sadly, it's looking like the news is accurate.
[Update]
Giraldo's own website has been simplified to include a link to his Facebook page, directing visitors there to leave "Notes of condolence."
Dylan Gadino at Punchline Magazine has received confirmation from Giraldo's management, The Collective, that the reports are accurate.
Tuesday, September 28, 2010
Twitterer of the Week: Andy Kindler
Andy Kindler first got my attention when he was a young comic sitting next to Conan O'Brien looking slightly nervous about the light laughs he was getting from the studio crowd, while I was cracking-up at home. I know that's a compliment comedians hate getting: 'Well, I thought you were hilarious even tho the audience didn't get it.' Thanks, they're thinking. The whole point of my act is to please just a couple people who think they're smarter than everyone else.His fame clicked up a couple levels when he got a recurring role on Everybody Loves Raymond, and started doing regular remotes for Letterman.
Kindler has to know that he's got respect from all levels. From his peers, from the fans, from the boardroom. How else did he get that plum job pretending to choose which comedians made it to the finals on Last Comic Standing?
Most Recent Tweet:
Four Older Tweets:
- Don Imus and Fox Business Channel. A marriage made in the boring part of Hell.
- Maureen Dowd writes horrible books and depressing columns. On the bright side, she tries to be funny and fails, which I find entertaining.
- I think therefore am I right ladies?
- I hope they don't water down the Marmaduke story.
Monday, September 27, 2010
Netflix Instant Nudge: Steven Wright - When the Leaves Blow Away
I ended up really liking the show. And it was surprising how much Wright reacted to his own material. Not laughing, but pausing and showing moments of amusement, confusion, and even pride. He was a little goofier than I had seen him up to then. But it's true, Wright doesn't switch up the pacing of his material as much as some comedians do. Another friend, Jay, who also saw the show made a similar observation as Gary: 'He's style is so dry. It's hard to keep the energy up.' But Jay didn't shrug his shoulders dismissively. He was still excited about a lot of the jokes, and he kept reciting them with admiration.
When the Leaves Blow Away is worth watching if you think a full hour of stand-up at Wright's pace is too much for you. The stage time is just over 40 minutes. It's a good performance, recorded over two days in 2006 in Toronto's Elgin & Winter Garden Theatre Centre.
The stand-up is followed by a half-hour film called One Soldier (1999), written and directed by Wright. It's the story of a Union soldier in the civil war, thinking back on his experiences and thoughts. The narration comes from the soldier and also from his wife, Becky, who sees him beginning to reel in his mind:
"There came a point where he told me sometimes he didn't know if things were happening, or if they just seemed to be happening. Then he said he realized it didn't really matter if it was one or the other because they were both experiences."
The black and white film is rich both visually and emotionally. Wright uses some of the lines from his stand-up in this story, revealing how tragic a lot of his humor is. Also showing how maddening it must be to be trapped in such a surreal skull.
Don't give up on the credits. Watch all the way to the end.
Sunday, September 26, 2010
This Week On The Shows: Sept 27-October 1
Greg Giraldo Hospitalized in New Jersey
(Updated below)
The Comic's Comic, Sean L. McCarthy, has reported that Greg Giraldo is in a Critical Care Unit in New Jersey.
The internet rumors about Giraldo started Saturday evening soon after he missed his show at the Stress Factory in New Brunswick, NJ. Around 9PM, a fan, Sarah Costello, posted on twitter:
According to Ava Gacser, who was at the show, Vinnie Brand—owner of the Stress Factory—"came on stage [and] … announced that Greg had been taken to Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital"
Around that time, fans online from everywhere were wondering and asking about the comedian's condition, filling in the details with claims that he had OD'd, died, committed suicide, and even that he had been murdered in his hotel room by a drug dealer.
The full story has not yet been made public, neither the cause of his hospitalization, nor the specifics of his condition. McCarthy, who considers himself "both a fan and a friend of Giraldo," is sure to be on top of the story. Stay tuned.
[UPDATE — 3:45PM]
TMZ is reporting that "sources close to" Giraldo are saying he did not attempt suicide, but he did overdose on prescription medication. They also report he is in stable condition.
[…6:25PM]
The New York Post reports that someone at The Collective, Giraldo's management company, has confirmed that it was an overdose, also asserting it was accidental.
Giraldo has been open about his struggles with substance abuse, and on Saturday he had joined several other performers to take part in the New York Recovery Rally, as part of national Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery Month.
The Comic's Comic, Sean L. McCarthy, has reported that Greg Giraldo is in a Critical Care Unit in New Jersey.
The internet rumors about Giraldo started Saturday evening soon after he missed his show at the Stress Factory in New Brunswick, NJ. Around 9PM, a fan, Sarah Costello, posted on twitter:
Drove all the way to New Brunswick, suffered thru the worst opener ever only to find out greg giraldo got rushed to the ER & isn't coming.
According to Ava Gacser, who was at the show, Vinnie Brand—owner of the Stress Factory—"came on stage [and] … announced that Greg had been taken to Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital"
Around that time, fans online from everywhere were wondering and asking about the comedian's condition, filling in the details with claims that he had OD'd, died, committed suicide, and even that he had been murdered in his hotel room by a drug dealer.
The full story has not yet been made public, neither the cause of his hospitalization, nor the specifics of his condition. McCarthy, who considers himself "both a fan and a friend of Giraldo," is sure to be on top of the story. Stay tuned.
[UPDATE — 3:45PM]
TMZ is reporting that "sources close to" Giraldo are saying he did not attempt suicide, but he did overdose on prescription medication. They also report he is in stable condition.
[…6:25PM]
The New York Post reports that someone at The Collective, Giraldo's management company, has confirmed that it was an overdose, also asserting it was accidental.
Giraldo has been open about his struggles with substance abuse, and on Saturday he had joined several other performers to take part in the New York Recovery Rally, as part of national Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery Month.
Friday, September 24, 2010
He's Known for His Monologue #51
According to a study, listen to this, women. Men! Men waste $3000 a year in gasoline as a result of not asking directions. (laughter, approval and light applause) In a related story, women waste $3000 a year on shoes they only wear once! (boisterous approval and applause) Thank you very much. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you gentlemen. (band fanfare)-September 7, 2010
Podcast of the Week: Bill Burr—The Monday Morning Podcast
Actually, he does dedicate a lot of time to feedback from listeners, often reading entire emails and responding pretty fairly to the concerns and criticism.
He holds very little back. Says whatever he's thinking, and uses whatever words it takes. Don't listen if salty language raises your blood pressure.
In recent podcasts he has defended Laura Schlessinger in her recent controversy, then he's taken the defense right back. His August 17 podcast mentions her, and dismisses her language as nothing more than a direct description of how some people talk.
"All she was really guilty of… [was] being an old white person making a fucken old reference to Def Comedy Jam… on HBO like the last 2 seasons."
He recalls some of his own older material about Def Comedy Jam.
My joke of the Def Jam impression was 'White people. Pussy. Peace!' That was every set that I- that's all it was. 'You ever see a white guy lay in a bed?' you know? 'Mother fucken black people, when we lay in a bed, we lay in the mother fucken bed!' Like, it was ridiculous. All right? And then it was peppered with the fucken n-word, all the way throughout. Fucken ridiculous. So, you can't expect some 60 year old white lady to be able to fucking process that.
A week later, on his August 23 podcast, Burr starts right off tearing himself down. Within the first minute he calls himself a douchebag for having defended Schlessinger.
I didn't know that she was like… Rush Limbaugh with a cunt. I had no idea. I just—you know—I didn't know who the fuck she was. I thought she was some soccer mom with a podcast.
And he promises to be more informed in the future when dealing with race issues.
I've alway appreciated Burr's take on everything. Including race. And gender. And class. And media. And bigotry. Not necessarily because I agree with his character (he's one of those comedians whose character has fuzzy borders) but because he talks as if he's being honest and that's all he needs of himself. His Opie & Anthony set in front of a hostile Philly crowd is like the theme from Rocky for comedy workouts. But less retarded. Watch that set to see Burr fight against thousands of drunk fans, finally convincing enough of them that all his insults are perfectly placed.
There's a a companion site, providing the videos and links that Burr mentions and discusses on the podcast. The site also provides links to recent episodes.
The main criticism I have has nothing to do with the content or delivery. It's that he's switched hosts a few times and the archives are tricky to find. His Libsyn site is outdated. If you want to do some grunt sleuthing, this page has all the links listed in paragraph text form. In a browser it shows up as text, but in an RSS reader, it does work as a feed. That's also the URI iTunes provides for the podcast.
The iTunes link doesn't work for me, reporting that the podcast "is not currently available in the U.S. Store" (even tho I'm currently subscribed).
And if you search for the podcast in the iTunes store, you'll get some old O&A remote pieces and random bits.
Another way to go is to use the podcast's Facebook page for guidance.
Thursday, September 23, 2010
He's Known for His Monologue #50
A candidate for governor of Nevada is proposing that motorists who pay an extra 25 dollars be allowed to drive in Nevada at speeds of up to 90 miles an hour. Finally, a politician making sense! Yes! (applause, cheers, and band fanfare) Yes! Thank you! Yes!-September 7, 2010
About those monologues…
You might have noticed we're right up to our 50th monologue joke. I think I can choose a doozy. I've had a policy of not talking about the jokes. Just presenting them and letting them speak for themselves. It's been so difficult. So. Difficult. I might break my vow of silence soon.
I'm thinking of changing the format. Maybe saving them up for a once a week post. It'll be a less intrusive feature, and the posts will be less heavy a visual presence. I'm still deciding on all that. In the meantime, thank's for checking in on the feature.
I'm thinking of changing the format. Maybe saving them up for a once a week post. It'll be a less intrusive feature, and the posts will be less heavy a visual presence. I'm still deciding on all that. In the meantime, thank's for checking in on the feature.
Wednesday, September 22, 2010
He's Known for His Monologue #49
US commanders in Afghanistan are now ending their policy of zero tolerance on corruption. They're ending the zero-tolerance on corruption policy and allowing local government officials who are on our side to be moderately corrupt. (light laughter). Well it's the same policy we have here in Congress. It's the exact same thing. We're just taking it over. It didn't really get a laugh or anything. (curt laughter)-September 7, 2010
Video Bit of the Week: English Teachers — The Series
Tony Gilmore has pretty much set up shop in Japan, directing films, mostly documentaries. In one of his current projects, English Teachers, he's stepping away from documentaries, and into comedy. The web series follows Tom Kellerman through his days teaching alongside a jerk, a martinet, a wannabe ninja, and the new girl.
Jonathan Sherr plays Kellerman as a bumbly curious naif. Kinda like Zach Braff in Tom Cavanagh's body. After only one episode the characters have just barely been introduced, but there's plenty of potential in the characters as they're set up. It'll be worth following, especially if you have any experience teaching English overseas.
My wife taught English in Korea before she started graduate school. She remembers that as one of the best and most pixelated years of her life. She laughs about her mostly frustrating experience with the English program, and the sweethearts she taught. She still talks about going back. "You could eat sushi for sooo cheap!" she coaxes.
English Teachers is on Facebook and Twitter.
Jonathan Sherr plays Kellerman as a bumbly curious naif. Kinda like Zach Braff in Tom Cavanagh's body. After only one episode the characters have just barely been introduced, but there's plenty of potential in the characters as they're set up. It'll be worth following, especially if you have any experience teaching English overseas.
My wife taught English in Korea before she started graduate school. She remembers that as one of the best and most pixelated years of her life. She laughs about her mostly frustrating experience with the English program, and the sweethearts she taught. She still talks about going back. "You could eat sushi for sooo cheap!" she coaxes.
English Teachers is on Facebook and Twitter.
Tuesday, September 21, 2010
He's Known for His Monologue #48
Police were forced to escort three fans out of the US Open after a fight broke out in the stands during a tennis match. Did you see that on the news? Imagine, a brawl at the US Open? When is this wealthy white guy on wealthy white guy violence going to end? (laughter) When are we going to see an end to this? Why can't– (extended applause)-September 7, 2010
Twitterer of the Week: Eddie Pepitone
I have a twitter list of "ranty ravy" comedians. You can probably predict who several of them are. But no list of ranting stand-ups would be complete without Eddie Pepitone. I'm not a big fan of most ranters (for the record, no matter what Dennis Miller called them, those were not rants), but Pepitone is hilarious, and his rants don't feel gratuitous. For me, his appeal is in not sounding like he's ranting out of anger, so much as fear and confusion. Instead of saying 'If you don't see things like I do, I will ridicule you' his message seems to be 'If you don't see things like I do, please, take me with you.'If you don't know his name, you might still recognize him from his work on so many other people's shows: The Sarah Silverman Program, King of Queens, Monk, Flight of the Concords, Weeds, Malcom in the Middle and much more. He's a regular on Marc Maron's live WTF episodes.
Usually, if the comedian's Twitter avatar doesn't make for a good profile image on these posts, I'll go find one that works better. When I saw that Pepitone's actual image file was so tiny, I laughed out loud, and almost went to look for a bigger image, but decided to leave it. I think that's what Eddie would want.
Most Recent Tweet:
Four Older Tweets:
- This new car better be the answer to all my sorrows and regrets.
- signs that things aren't going well- 1) your grandmother was killed by people you owe money to. 2) you refer to "wine country" a lot.
- Tweets of Nietzche's wife- God isn't as dead as our sex life!
- When I look at people's DVD collections I always think they are assholes.
Monday, September 20, 2010
He's Known for His Monologue #47
Hope you all had a nice Labor Day weekend.… (Cheers) As you know, yesterday all the banks were closed. But today several of them reopened. (laughter)-September 7, 2010
Netflix Instant Nudge: Comedy Central Presents
Let's go back to the well for this one. Go watch Big Jay Oakerson (#14 on the list) do a solid 20 minute set.His delivery is calm, indifferent, confident, sarcastic, and consistent. It's a little bit Dave Attell, a smidgen Ron White, a splash of Robert Schimmel. And he's putting out good stuff. He throws a lot of very quick jabs into his material getting laughs along the way without breaking rhythm.
Oakerson has a following, and it's gotta be growing. He did some writing for Chappelle's Show, he has toured with Korn, performed at the Just For Laughs festival in Montreal, and in the last few weeks he's been jumping across the country headlining. A New York comedian, he's headed out west for some shows on that coast. He'll be at Punchline, this week in San Francisco, next week in Sacramento.
There's an interesting moment in his CC set, towards the end, where he makes a claim and someone in the audience disagrees with it unnecessarily, simply saying "No" while Oakerson's in the middle of the bit. And it's one of those ridiculous Nos that's obviously false, and not intended as an actual belief, but put out only for the sake of making a stubborn little joke. It's barely a heckle.
Oakerson brushes the comment aside, unfazed, and plows thru the bit as if the opinion didn't matter at all. He doesn't argue, pursue, or acknowledge any minimal value of the dissent. He stays in charge and does his act from his perspective. He moves so forcefully and smoothly thru it, that I probably wouldn't have noticed it if my OCD for marking each line hadn't been kicked up a notch by a pot of coffee. The word to hold on to: unfazed. That's how I'd describe his act. With all the benefits it implies.
Still. They should spray that type of audience member with a permanent dye to mark them and keep them out of any more shows.
Sunday, September 19, 2010
Advocating Satire: Purdue and the Prestige [Updated]
(Updated below)
In the circles I roam, this cartoon has gotten a lot of attention the last couple of days:
(Click to see the bigger image.)
It was published in The Exponent, the paper run by Purdue students.
There are a few things we can react to here: 1) an incidence of rape 2) a plan to commit rape 3) a joke about rape 4) indifference about rape 5) indifference about a joke about rape.
The people around me who are mad about this haven't said #1 occurred (well they believe it has, but they're not saying that this cartoon is an incidence of rape). They're also apparently not saying that #3 occurred. So they're mad about #s 2 and 4. And if they read this and believe what I say here and they get mad at me, we can add #5.
Mxrk writes:
So we can assume that he is either OK with all jokes about rape, or OK with jokes about rape when he figures the victims deserve it. What's the golden rule there? Do unto others what you think you can make a pretty good argument they deserve? No. It's irony. Mxrk isn't OK with rape. And because it's a joke, I'm not mad that he said it.*
And a cowboy without a cause writes "I tend to enjoy a raunchy joke" but explains that this one is not OK because "There doesn't seem to be a trace of irony to be found" and if you look around the paper's website for other cartoons, looking for misogyny, "there's plenty of other evidence."
This is an interesting claim: If someone hasn't earned the right to make a joke, we can take the joke literally.
So "earned the right" probably isn't quite it. Our wrangler friend is looking for irony, and I'm assuming evidence of that irony could be apparent in the joke itself, even if it's not found in the newspaper's archives or in the life of the writer/cartoonist/editor.
Well how about the fact that it's a fucking cartoon and it's referencing an overrated melodramatic movie about magic tricks and murder. Oh Shit! I knew it! Michael Caine is a psychopath! All those accents should have been a clue.
It seems to me very obvious–and so I really don't think it needs much more argument–that this isn't a literal statement of belief. Then next step, and this one does deserve more discussion, is how the joke might affect the values of the readers. And in the context of a Big Ten school with a population full of drunk frat boys that were weened on moonshine and grew up eyeing their cousins and goats, this cartoon could sound like tame round of truth or dare. So we can't trust this population to hear this kind of joke no matter what the writer's intention.
Thank god we don't base policy on that sort of well-intention distrust.
But the angry reaction to the joke can lead in a few directions that do make perfect sense. The newspaper can hear from the readers that this joke made them angry. And if the editors don't atone for it, pissed-off readers will go somewhere else for dumb jokes and typo-riddled stories about local pizza.
Or the complaints will escalate and move to the advertisers, and the power of money will lean on them. Repent and sin no more, or you'll have to find advertisers that don't care.
That's fair.
Both of these skip over the argument of "is my anger justified." Because really, who cares of your anger is justified? That's a self-evident belief. When Jerry Falwell claimed his emotional distress was worth some of Larry Flynt's money, part of his claim was obviously justified–if all we're looking for is evidence that some emotional distress occurred. But is that where we are? 'Don't make a joke that I have a problem with'?
Do we have to cross ourselves and kneel before every mention of rape too?
There's nothing inaccurate about taking offense. There's nothing silly about being very sensitive about rape.
Disagreements about this joke have to be very precisely set. So I have to make a few things clear:
Here's the trump card that can get thrown at me for not being upset by this cartoon: What if one kid sees this cartoon and thinks it sounds like an awesome idea and plans it with his friend and a girl ends up a train victim?
Yeah. That's always there. It's the same argument my youth pastor made about Ozzy and Marilyn Manson. And you could nudge a lot of comics away from satire if you got them to be afraid that any joke might be taken seriously and acted-on by idiots. But even if you're going to make that argument, what you're really saying is 'Make a joke, as long as you make sure to spell it out for the audience that you're just kidding, so that if anyone thinks you're serious, you and I will know you did your part.' Because there are always idiots out there that don't understand things. And our job is to make sure we've been reasonably clear.
So we're arguing about "reasonably." Fine. Because if that's not good enough, then you're forced to argue that all satire is dangerous. Either that, or that your sense of jokes that get 'too close' is good enough to measure the morality of a piece of satire. And if we're outraged because a joke doesn't work well enough, where's our petition to get all Geico ads banned?
Well, I guess I've been working on an important jump here: that the cartoon was satire. So let's start back there. Convince me that this cartoonist or editor is advocating rape. Convince me that they'd be ok with this little switcheroo on their sister, and I'll sign your petition telling them it's not OK.
And I'll probably start a bunch of others too.
UPDATE:
The Exponent has published an apology by EIC Zoe Hayes. It sounds sincere. I believe she too is anti-rape and respects people's sensitivity about it. And she makes an interesting admission.
So that adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. Is is possible that this trick would work if all three were consenting? Not unless we create a backstory and the girls says 'Hey, if you ever want to do that Farinelli flipflop on me I'll be cool with it. But don't tell me, because I want to be surprised.' And that hardly ever happens. It almost sounds like I have to eat my words here and bail on my argument, because I did say "Convince me that they'd be ok with this little switcheroo on their sister and I'll sign your petition."
I'm not sure what Zoe means by "meet our criteria" or even "everyone involved." I doubt she means only the two guys. At any rate, it's a boneheaded explanation for the decision to run the joke. If it's all consensual then sure, an orgie isn't rape. But then the surprise falls apart. I stand by my assertion that the people who wrote and published this would not be OK with the prank as an actual surprise.
Hayes adds:
Of course I agree. And I never said anything like that. Defending this joke doesn't mean you think the girl was asking for it. And besides, if she actually did ask for it, it wouldn't be rape, would it?
Look, they stumbled on this joke. It failed miserably. And my point here is that if I'm going to attack a joke for being in poor taste, I'm not going to say it's the subject matter that made it fail. It's the delivery. And these kids are hacks.
UPDATE #2
* Let me unpack the reason I don't call Mxrk a hypocrite. He's obviously OK with jokes about rape, as long as he believes that the person telling the joke isn't advocating rape. His complaint about the cartoon is not that it's a joke, but that it's advocating rape. Now he might not even believe it's a joke. That makes his anger even more understandable. Even if I don't share that anger. Even if I poke some fun at it. Because I'm willing to be an insensitive prick. And he's told me he likes that.
In the circles I roam, this cartoon has gotten a lot of attention the last couple of days:
(Click to see the bigger image.)
It was published in The Exponent, the paper run by Purdue students.
There are a few things we can react to here: 1) an incidence of rape 2) a plan to commit rape 3) a joke about rape 4) indifference about rape 5) indifference about a joke about rape.
The people around me who are mad about this haven't said #1 occurred (well they believe it has, but they're not saying that this cartoon is an incidence of rape). They're also apparently not saying that #3 occurred. So they're mad about #s 2 and 4. And if they read this and believe what I say here and they get mad at me, we can add #5.
Mxrk writes:
To me, the only thing funny about this comic is that once dudes 1 and 2 are convicted of felony sexual assault and sent to big boy prison, their cellmates are going to have a high old time pulling “The Prestige” on them.
So we can assume that he is either OK with all jokes about rape, or OK with jokes about rape when he figures the victims deserve it. What's the golden rule there? Do unto others what you think you can make a pretty good argument they deserve? No. It's irony. Mxrk isn't OK with rape. And because it's a joke, I'm not mad that he said it.*
And a cowboy without a cause writes "I tend to enjoy a raunchy joke" but explains that this one is not OK because "There doesn't seem to be a trace of irony to be found" and if you look around the paper's website for other cartoons, looking for misogyny, "there's plenty of other evidence."
This is an interesting claim: If someone hasn't earned the right to make a joke, we can take the joke literally.
So "earned the right" probably isn't quite it. Our wrangler friend is looking for irony, and I'm assuming evidence of that irony could be apparent in the joke itself, even if it's not found in the newspaper's archives or in the life of the writer/cartoonist/editor.
Well how about the fact that it's a fucking cartoon and it's referencing an overrated melodramatic movie about magic tricks and murder. Oh Shit! I knew it! Michael Caine is a psychopath! All those accents should have been a clue.
It seems to me very obvious–and so I really don't think it needs much more argument–that this isn't a literal statement of belief. Then next step, and this one does deserve more discussion, is how the joke might affect the values of the readers. And in the context of a Big Ten school with a population full of drunk frat boys that were weened on moonshine and grew up eyeing their cousins and goats, this cartoon could sound like tame round of truth or dare. So we can't trust this population to hear this kind of joke no matter what the writer's intention.
Thank god we don't base policy on that sort of well-intention distrust.
But the angry reaction to the joke can lead in a few directions that do make perfect sense. The newspaper can hear from the readers that this joke made them angry. And if the editors don't atone for it, pissed-off readers will go somewhere else for dumb jokes and typo-riddled stories about local pizza.
Or the complaints will escalate and move to the advertisers, and the power of money will lean on them. Repent and sin no more, or you'll have to find advertisers that don't care.
That's fair.
Both of these skip over the argument of "is my anger justified." Because really, who cares of your anger is justified? That's a self-evident belief. When Jerry Falwell claimed his emotional distress was worth some of Larry Flynt's money, part of his claim was obviously justified–if all we're looking for is evidence that some emotional distress occurred. But is that where we are? 'Don't make a joke that I have a problem with'?
Do we have to cross ourselves and kneel before every mention of rape too?
There's nothing inaccurate about taking offense. There's nothing silly about being very sensitive about rape.
Disagreements about this joke have to be very precisely set. So I have to make a few things clear:
- I'm against rape.
- I think rape should not happen
- I believe date rape is "rape rape."
- If I saw a rape occurring, I might go so far as to disembowel the rapist to stop it. Definitely if I've had my coffee.
- If I heard someone actually planning a rape, I would say "Don't try it." If necessary, I would follow them and stop them forcefully. It could get messy.
- I believe the cartoon is meant ironically.
- I don't think the joke is all that funny.
- I believe those who are complaining should say everything just as they've said it if it's what they believe.
- I believe if the paper wants to make absolutely sure that every meathead realizes this trick would be prosecutable as rape, a simple statement to that effect would help a little bit.
- I believe if the student paper cares about these petitioners feelings, an apology and a promise to be more sensitive in the future is a good way to make that clear.
- I don't really care if the paper cares about those feelings.
Here's the trump card that can get thrown at me for not being upset by this cartoon: What if one kid sees this cartoon and thinks it sounds like an awesome idea and plans it with his friend and a girl ends up a train victim?
Yeah. That's always there. It's the same argument my youth pastor made about Ozzy and Marilyn Manson. And you could nudge a lot of comics away from satire if you got them to be afraid that any joke might be taken seriously and acted-on by idiots. But even if you're going to make that argument, what you're really saying is 'Make a joke, as long as you make sure to spell it out for the audience that you're just kidding, so that if anyone thinks you're serious, you and I will know you did your part.' Because there are always idiots out there that don't understand things. And our job is to make sure we've been reasonably clear.
So we're arguing about "reasonably." Fine. Because if that's not good enough, then you're forced to argue that all satire is dangerous. Either that, or that your sense of jokes that get 'too close' is good enough to measure the morality of a piece of satire. And if we're outraged because a joke doesn't work well enough, where's our petition to get all Geico ads banned?
Well, I guess I've been working on an important jump here: that the cartoon was satire. So let's start back there. Convince me that this cartoonist or editor is advocating rape. Convince me that they'd be ok with this little switcheroo on their sister, and I'll sign your petition telling them it's not OK.
And I'll probably start a bunch of others too.
UPDATE:
The Exponent has published an apology by EIC Zoe Hayes. It sounds sincere. I believe she too is anti-rape and respects people's sensitivity about it. And she makes an interesting admission.
When we conceived of the position, we assumed that everyone involved would meet our criteria for consent, which are conscious, coherent, and into it. When we saw the graphic, that’s what we, in retrospect mistakenly, assumed was taking place – consensual, albeit kinky, sex between three adults.
So that adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. Is is possible that this trick would work if all three were consenting? Not unless we create a backstory and the girls says 'Hey, if you ever want to do that Farinelli flipflop on me I'll be cool with it. But don't tell me, because I want to be surprised.' And that hardly ever happens. It almost sounds like I have to eat my words here and bail on my argument, because I did say "Convince me that they'd be ok with this little switcheroo on their sister and I'll sign your petition."
I'm not sure what Zoe means by "meet our criteria" or even "everyone involved." I doubt she means only the two guys. At any rate, it's a boneheaded explanation for the decision to run the joke. If it's all consensual then sure, an orgie isn't rape. But then the surprise falls apart. I stand by my assertion that the people who wrote and published this would not be OK with the prank as an actual surprise.
Hayes adds:
And to those defending us: While we appreciate some of your arguments on our behalf, ladies and gentlemen, suggesting that someone was “asking for” rape is misguided and precisely the problem here.
Of course I agree. And I never said anything like that. Defending this joke doesn't mean you think the girl was asking for it. And besides, if she actually did ask for it, it wouldn't be rape, would it?
Look, they stumbled on this joke. It failed miserably. And my point here is that if I'm going to attack a joke for being in poor taste, I'm not going to say it's the subject matter that made it fail. It's the delivery. And these kids are hacks.
UPDATE #2
* Let me unpack the reason I don't call Mxrk a hypocrite. He's obviously OK with jokes about rape, as long as he believes that the person telling the joke isn't advocating rape. His complaint about the cartoon is not that it's a joke, but that it's advocating rape. Now he might not even believe it's a joke. That makes his anger even more understandable. Even if I don't share that anger. Even if I poke some fun at it. Because I'm willing to be an insensitive prick. And he's told me he likes that.
This Week On The Shows: Sept 20-24
Thursday, September 16, 2010
He's Known for His Monologue #46
The economy is so bad, Glenn Beck had to speak to a hundred thousand people today about Herbalife! That's how bad— that's how bad it is! (applause)-August 31, 2010
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